Gooners
- Thread starter Flight
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Treebeard
Ranger of the North
Its men against boys mate, with a few of our more experienced players coming to the end of their best days.
Flamini/Fab v Makelele/Lampard. No contest at the moment. Senderos did hold his own against Dogbreath today though.
Freddie has been hit and miss for a season and a half now when not injured.
Pires on his day can still do it but the game has become a lot more physical in the Prem in the last two seasons and his age is against him. Same with Bergkamp.
Campbell has really struggled this season.
Reyes has had more fight and energy this year than most, except for Toure and Lauren, but all that energy is not being directed where it needs to be.
Its the most un-Arsenal side I have seen in 25 years. Whether under Howe, Neill, Graham, Wenger etc and whether we played attractively or not, we always had a rock solid spine to the team. Our spine currently consists of kids, or players coming to the end of their best times.
On the plus side in another season or two other teams will looks up the field at RvP and Fab and wish they could go home. These two guys will be that good.
We did have a goal disallowed that was onside and Henry hit the post before the chavs scored but both of their goals came from fullback positions which shows you can't afford weaknesses anywhere at this lvl. Cashley Cole and Cliche both being injured have hurt our already struggling defence.
I think us Gooners may need to tighten our belts for a season or two.
Henry is looking like he has already gone. I think he will still be with us for the new stadium, but its touch and go depending on how much of a backward step we have taken at the end of this season. I think making him captain has been a bad idea.
Flamini/Fab v Makelele/Lampard. No contest at the moment. Senderos did hold his own against Dogbreath today though.
Freddie has been hit and miss for a season and a half now when not injured.
Pires on his day can still do it but the game has become a lot more physical in the Prem in the last two seasons and his age is against him. Same with Bergkamp.
Campbell has really struggled this season.
Reyes has had more fight and energy this year than most, except for Toure and Lauren, but all that energy is not being directed where it needs to be.
Its the most un-Arsenal side I have seen in 25 years. Whether under Howe, Neill, Graham, Wenger etc and whether we played attractively or not, we always had a rock solid spine to the team. Our spine currently consists of kids, or players coming to the end of their best times.
On the plus side in another season or two other teams will looks up the field at RvP and Fab and wish they could go home. These two guys will be that good.
We did have a goal disallowed that was onside and Henry hit the post before the chavs scored but both of their goals came from fullback positions which shows you can't afford weaknesses anywhere at this lvl. Cashley Cole and Cliche both being injured have hurt our already struggling defence.
I think us Gooners may need to tighten our belts for a season or two.
Henry is looking like he has already gone. I think he will still be with us for the new stadium, but its touch and go depending on how much of a backward step we have taken at the end of this season. I think making him captain has been a bad idea.
Slainagain
Full Member
Agree with what you say about team looking past it's best, i think u definitely need to sign at least 2 proven international stars, rather than just buying promising players, which most Arsenal buys have been of late.
Agravaine
Professional Slacker
It's going wrong for us because the only ways you can play the way Wenger insists we play and make it work are:
1. You're in good form with accurate passing/shooting - We're not and our passing/shooting sucks atm.
2. You play against crap teams - Not many of those about in the Premiership.
3. You get lucky - Last night pretty much showed where our luck has gone.
Wenger is a brilliant manager and quite possibly the best thing that's ever happened to this club but he needs to get a clue.
Teams are no longer going to sit back and give us the time and space to destroy them with our passing game. They're going to press us, disrupt the play and at times give us a good kicking. I agree with him, it sucks when you're kicked off the park but complaining isn't going to stop it, you need to fight fire with fire.
Wenger is only interested in playing the beautiful passing game but having a big f**k off striker, center midfielder and center back to physically dominate the game would let the other more creative and gifted players do what he wants them to.
I may be wrong but to me the conventional English game is all about power, aggression and decent crosses into the box. Wenger turned us into a team which lives off pace, passing and skill and for a few seasons, only the best teams could live with it because they wren't used to dealing with it. Unfortunately we've now forgotten how to play any other way and all the other teams have worked us out.
We can't cross or head and we don't attack the box with high numbers very often. We play narrow through the middle so the other teams pack the middle of the park knowing they won't have to deal with anything else.
For me, we need to learn to play the English game again. Not instead of how we have been playing but to compliment it.
If the opposition set up to defend against crosses and defend the flanks, we play our passing game through the middle. If they pack the middle of the pitch to stop that, we attack down the wings and pepper them with crosses.
It's more or less what Manure have been doing for years and they've won more than anyone else so you can't really argue against it.
1. You're in good form with accurate passing/shooting - We're not and our passing/shooting sucks atm.
2. You play against crap teams - Not many of those about in the Premiership.
3. You get lucky - Last night pretty much showed where our luck has gone.
Wenger is a brilliant manager and quite possibly the best thing that's ever happened to this club but he needs to get a clue.
Teams are no longer going to sit back and give us the time and space to destroy them with our passing game. They're going to press us, disrupt the play and at times give us a good kicking. I agree with him, it sucks when you're kicked off the park but complaining isn't going to stop it, you need to fight fire with fire.
Wenger is only interested in playing the beautiful passing game but having a big f**k off striker, center midfielder and center back to physically dominate the game would let the other more creative and gifted players do what he wants them to.
I may be wrong but to me the conventional English game is all about power, aggression and decent crosses into the box. Wenger turned us into a team which lives off pace, passing and skill and for a few seasons, only the best teams could live with it because they wren't used to dealing with it. Unfortunately we've now forgotten how to play any other way and all the other teams have worked us out.
We can't cross or head and we don't attack the box with high numbers very often. We play narrow through the middle so the other teams pack the middle of the park knowing they won't have to deal with anything else.
For me, we need to learn to play the English game again. Not instead of how we have been playing but to compliment it.
If the opposition set up to defend against crosses and defend the flanks, we play our passing game through the middle. If they pack the middle of the pitch to stop that, we attack down the wings and pepper them with crosses.
It's more or less what Manure have been doing for years and they've won more than anyone else so you can't really argue against it.
Treebeard
Ranger of the North
I'm not sure that we need to play the English way to be successful again. It'll be a sad day if we have to play like Chelsea to succeed. Not that they play in a negative or dull way, but I don't think we should have to completely change our game. Wenger isn't going to do it anyway.
I think its possible to still challenge for the Premiership playing our beautiful game, but we need to have a little bit of steel to compliment that and thats what we have lost in the last year or two. We've gone from having Petit/Vieira/Adams/Keown/Dixon/Winterburn to Vieira/Gilberto/Toure/Campbell to Flamini/Fab/Gilberto/Toure/Campbell. We have arguably the best LB in the league and good cover but unluckily both are injured.
Fab will be our playmaker in the future but is still too young to compete when the going gets tough, Toure is a good replacement for Adams/Keown and the other 3 players are either coming to the end of their careers like Campbell or not good enough/too young like Flamini. I think Gilberto has been great for us overall although a lot of Arsenal fans think he is not good enough. I'm inclined to take notice of the Brazilian team and coach where his nickname is The Wall or some such.
There are a handful ot teams; Bolton, Spurs, Liverpool, Man City etc who have greatly improved in the last two seasons and we can't expect a CL place anymore.
I think all we need is a dominating CB to compliment Toure and the same in Midfield to compliment/act as cover for Fab and Gilberto. We can't expect the likes of Senderos, Fab, Flamini, RvP to go out away from home and compete with Shearer, Lampard, Makelele etc at the moment. They don't have the experience and won't have for a year or two more.
I think the biggest mistake Wenger has made was making Henry captain. He is not a leader. He is polite and intelligent off the pitch, but on it when things are not going right, he is not a motivational player and his body language is a poor example to the other players. He should have given it to one of the defenders.
Its also fair to say that Chelsea are destroying the game in England. 3 players we were interested in over the summer Chelsea showed an interest in all 3 and signed 2. I think the FA need to do something about their transfer policy otherwise no one will be able to buy a top player again.
I think its possible to still challenge for the Premiership playing our beautiful game, but we need to have a little bit of steel to compliment that and thats what we have lost in the last year or two. We've gone from having Petit/Vieira/Adams/Keown/Dixon/Winterburn to Vieira/Gilberto/Toure/Campbell to Flamini/Fab/Gilberto/Toure/Campbell. We have arguably the best LB in the league and good cover but unluckily both are injured.
Fab will be our playmaker in the future but is still too young to compete when the going gets tough, Toure is a good replacement for Adams/Keown and the other 3 players are either coming to the end of their careers like Campbell or not good enough/too young like Flamini. I think Gilberto has been great for us overall although a lot of Arsenal fans think he is not good enough. I'm inclined to take notice of the Brazilian team and coach where his nickname is The Wall or some such.
There are a handful ot teams; Bolton, Spurs, Liverpool, Man City etc who have greatly improved in the last two seasons and we can't expect a CL place anymore.
I think all we need is a dominating CB to compliment Toure and the same in Midfield to compliment/act as cover for Fab and Gilberto. We can't expect the likes of Senderos, Fab, Flamini, RvP to go out away from home and compete with Shearer, Lampard, Makelele etc at the moment. They don't have the experience and won't have for a year or two more.
I think the biggest mistake Wenger has made was making Henry captain. He is not a leader. He is polite and intelligent off the pitch, but on it when things are not going right, he is not a motivational player and his body language is a poor example to the other players. He should have given it to one of the defenders.
Its also fair to say that Chelsea are destroying the game in England. 3 players we were interested in over the summer Chelsea showed an interest in all 3 and signed 2. I think the FA need to do something about their transfer policy otherwise no one will be able to buy a top player again.
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