Painting, undercoat spray vs. painting

[Gottaa]

I'm close to taking the plunge into painting my models and I'm in abit of a quandry (so much so I'm sure I've asked this before, if so sorry).

I've read that a basecoat sprayed on gives a better finish to the overall model, but spraying has the issue that I don't want to end up colouring the patio/house/table/etc. So is spraying really worth the extra effort, or if I just water down an existing paint and get an undercoat brush is that going to be good enough, certainly for me who's eyesight isn't the best anyway ? I know I will once the model is finished be spraying on the army builder matt varnish (mainly spraying because I've not seen a matt paint on one), but at least with varnish I'm spraying something transparent.

I'm keen to get started and just using brushes I can see this happening more quickly than with the spray (if not only becuase I wouldn't have to order it online but could get it myself on saturday). Should I hold my horses and spray it, and if so any tips on spraying in such a way you're not going to get paint on the stuff around you (already assumed doing it in a side on box, but I assume paint in the air will still land on stuff around

 

[Pit.Sweat]

I tried spraying plastic models recently for the first time and. The wife made me play outside as I probably would have just sprayed away on the kitchen table (so to speak). I used an old A4 photocopy paper box on its side to stand models in, all attached to a separate piece of card to keep them stable and so I could move & carry then without getting messy. Very pleased with the result and lack of mess - no paint on either conservatory or crazy paving but our garden is fairly well sheltered from wind. Will certainly be spraying in future rather than undercoat painting regardless of the extra cost although I tend to paint several models together so undercoating as a group saves time.

 

[Gottaa]

as I'm orks I've got alot to paint already so will be painting them in groups as well Is the result alot better than you achieve with brushed on undercoat then ?

And I'm guessing if you do spray you spray one side, then rotate 180degree (turning the card around in your case) then spray again, and it's all done ? That gives me hope though Pit

 

[Swither]

Gottaa, I took my son to a GamesWorkshop painting course and they demonstrated spray painting the undercoat.
What they did was 1 second bursts and continually turning the figure.
They said the key was light coats and to turn model around, so you got every nook & cranny, plus got a nice even coat of spray paint.
One of them used a stick with the figure attached on the end.

 

[Aaelon]

I just used an shoe box to paint them in.

 

[Zed]

Get a box, put a hole in the back for air circulation and spray. I spray inthe garage and havent got paint anywhere but in the box.

Short bursts. rotate figure, repeat. Leave to dry.

Dont spray in low temperatures. Also if its say 10 -11 degrees outside and 20 in the house leave to dry a little outside before taking inside (can get messy).

Im probably going to get some Army painter primer for when i start the deathwing so i can undercoat in the equivalent of bone white to start with.

 

[Brutus]

Yup the stick works a treat, another trick is to use an airbrushing turn table to make life even easier, just blue tac the models to the thing and rotate away, very fast way of undercoating but it does have differences to using brushes:

Spraying: Will often leave a slight texture to the models, some people like this some don't, its personal choice but more importantly there will always be areas of the model that the spray may not reach unless you use a stick and rotate in the y axis also, you will have to sort these out by hand later on but on the whole this is far far faster than doing it by hand. Not a good choice if you are painting to very high standards.

By hand: You will get an even finish (yes you should water down your paint for this, something like 4 to 6 water to paint is generally about right, and dont go using the biggest brush you can, you dont want it pooling) and you can cover the entire surface of the model, it does take some time though, especially for lots of models as you are intending on doing. This is also the only real choice if you intend to paint a model/s to a very high standard.

As regards mess, well aside from the finger used to hold the spray nozzle down (you always get some there!) just make sure that you have some form of box to spray into with sides, a top and bottom to protect whatever you are sprying on top of, a very good solution I have seen work is a lump of wood surrounded by thick card on a table in a garage, you them move around spraying as you go, alternatively use something like a deep box on its side with some additional paper around the base to catch any excess blasts, so long as you prepare properly you won't make a mess.

Dont do this in an enclosed space though, the propellant can be quite unpleasant after a few moments, but more importantly is bloody dangerous, its not on par with krylon but you should be very careful as the stuff can linger for some considerable time after use.

Edit: Also drying, it can be ready to paint on in about an hour or so usually (read the f**king can) but if you really want the stuff to be utterly dry and ready for whatever you put on top of it (this is for those using some really evil paints and air brushes) let it cure for 24 hours.

 

[Zeus]

out of interest, while we're on the subject of painting, whats a good way to do gold?
when i painted Dante, iirc, i just put several layers of burnished gold on... i'm not entirely happy with how it turned out though, and it took ages to do all the layers (i think its a very low-pigment paint, so it took about 6 layers for it to take on a 'solid' aspect, rather than looking like white with a bit of gold pigment on it ).

i'm soon going to have another 6 or 11 gold models to paint (depending on whether i get 5 or 10 sanguinary guard, and the Exemplar of the Host), so wondering if theres an easier way to do it? a freind of mine has suggested doing a base coat with boltgun metal so that its at least a metalic base, but i suspect that'll be too dark and i'll end up doing a similar number of coats to before anyway - and lose more detail as the boltgun is thicker paint than just the undercoat.

 

[Requiel]

Spraying is pretty much the best way to prime models. If you don't prime them then paint won't stick well. Doing it by hand is a pain and doesn't give better results than spraying if you do it properly. Always spray outside or in a well ventilated area, use blu-tack or double sided sticky tape when spraying plastics or the force of the spray will send them flying.

I find that stuff is ready to paint about 5-10 minutes after spraying. I use the normal GW white undercoat for pretty much anything. Note that the GW black undercoat isn't a primer, it's a basecoat which means it doesn't give a key for the paint to stick to. It's always best to use an actual primer - either the GW white or one of the other brand alternatives, don't use the GW black spray as a primer.

Also don't use regular paint as a primer if you're doing it by hand. The point of the primer is that it gives a slightly rough surface which helps the paint to adhere. Normal acrylics don't do that, you can get brush on primer in jars from Revell or Tamiya but honestly it's best to use a spray.

 

[Gottaa]

I was looking originally at using the Army Painter guide Zed posted, which is

Red colour primer
paint skin, weapons, a little detail
dip into quick shade
spray on matt varnish

Would getting GW white primer and doing that (so in effect just replacing the red primer), but then having my orks in white(ish after the quick shade) be okay ? The Army Builder primer tutorial appears to spray differently than people here have said and looks like it would be much messier, hence my original concern, a model on a stick, stood in the back garden would be fine and dandy

 

[Brutus]

Yup Req's quite right about priming, but I still rate by hand better, paint spray can't go round corners don't forget!

You should remember that there are some slight levels of solvant in most paints (especially in the Tamiya acrylics, they dry very evenly as a result also, not so much in GW stuf though, if any at all for that matter?) so it does work using them as either a base or a primer, you just need to be somewhat more careful initially but it works very well.

FYI the Tamiya primer is bloody EPIC stuff

Your method should work fine though Gottaa, won't be especially labout intensive either!

 

[Gottaa]

If by hand is as good wouldn't it be quicker as you wouldn't have all the setup time involved in spray ? One issue I still have with the spray option is I'll need to be outside to do it which means of an evening if I've nothing else on I couldn't do anything unless I had primed stuff the weekend before.

I think I will end up probably doing both and comparing, but the other thing I've only just thought of is I can brush with my magnifier held in place for me and a nice strong light (damn useful light) and see in much better detail what I am doing, thought I guess that is less important when priming, but it would mean I could see the coverage. I think the main thing is funding all these things

 

[Brutus]

Well there is one other alternative (all be it a bit slap dash).

You can prime/undercoat the parts on the sprues, very very fast, but you get bits without a coat on them when you cut them out of the sprue, as for doing them outside its pretty quick on the old stick but if you make a little booth you can do as many as you can get in a straight line and turn at once, hence the booth!

 

[Requiel]

If by hand is as good wouldn't it be quicker as you wouldn't have all the setup time involved in spray ? One issue I still have with the spray option is I'll need to be outside to do it which means of an evening if I've nothing else on I couldn't do anything unless I had primed stuff the weekend before.

There's no real setup to speak of. I stick my figures to a box lid with blu-tack and spray them outside. Takes a couple of minutes to do 15 or so at a time and they are ready to paint ten minutes later. I hold the box up in one hand and turn it as I spray with the other so I can get to all the areas on the figures without having to wait for the paint to dry before turning them around.

 

[Gottaa]

Right, I'll try out spraying on a stick this weekend, though it has just dawned upon me I'll probably end up spraying one of the dogs as I do this

 

[Pit.Sweat]

Good luck, hopefully you'll be pleased with the result... and if you do get one of the dogs it'll act as a good primer to put it right

 

[MedicineMan]

Hell no, don't spray on the sprue. They'll look like a bag of shite after you remove the moldlines and you'll have to re-spray anyway.

A good way to spray prime is to stick your mini's to a bit of scrap 2"x1" with whitetac. Use whitetac as there's not much of the filthy grease you get in the blue stuff and you don't get the bits left behind when you peel it off. Or pop a magnet on the bottom and sit them on a metal ruler or somesuch. This is better for Fantasy Battle mini's as you can mag them to a metal movement tray after. Then spray with light spurts starting before the mini and finishing after. As they're on a stick you can hold them upside down etc to get in the nooks and cranny's and you can do a whole length of minis in one pass. Try to get your mini covered in about 10-20 secs holding the can around 6-8 inches away. You will waste a fair bit but not as much if you use the stick method. Don't half cover your minis then wait a minute and respray over, you'll get 'orange peeling' where your second spray has hit the still soft first coat and ruffled it up. And remember to shake your can for a couple of minutes before hand, and give it a few test puffs. Most primer disasters are from getting too much propellant in the paint or from spraying from too far away in which case the paint dries before it hits the mini and you get a powdery finish.
Here's a half decent vid on it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe28VlvlMN0

 

[Gottaa]

Well no painting this weekend looking at the weather. Not only thing I was considering painting on the sprue was some of the trukk parts, but not really sure how I'm gonna do those bits anyway

 

[Swither]

I used a cheap �2 black matt spray paint for my kids figures, instead of the the GW �9 can.

As an undercoat it worked fine.

Any reason why we shouldn't continue using it?

We're not bothered about being anoraks who always use 'goblin green' etc. instead of an equivalent.

 

[Requiel]

It's nothing to do with being the wrong colour it's because a basecoat is not the same thing as a primer.

GW black spray is not a primer either, it's a basecoat and for best resutls you should prime it first then spray it black (actually for best results I hate spraying anything black, even the Black Templars I painted for a friend were undercoated white).

There are a lot of cheaper alternatives to the Citadel white primer spray in various colours including black but an undercoat spray is not the same thing.