So....

[Janie]

Also, the first two goals were dubious at best.

Tuesday night's commentary on BBC Radio 5 Live from the, as ever, impartial Alan 'definately not a Liverpool fan, honest! Green when Liverpool were awarded the most dubious of penalties...

Alan Green: "Stone-wall penalty."

Mark Lawrenson: "That's a very harsh penalty. Actually, it's the wrong decision. The ball clearly hits Heinze on the shoulder."

AG: "Who cares?!"

ML: "Well everyone should, it's a bad, bad decision and we don't want to see them. Especially in games like these."

AG: "Well, of course not, but from a Liverpool point of view it doesn't matter."

ML: "Not for me, it's a poor decision and it could easily go against you."

AG: "Still it's a great chance for Liverpool to put the tie to bed now."

It#s worrying when Mark Lawrenson is the voice of reason - I'm wondering if Flight is Alan Green now

 

[Flight]

G. Southgate must be one hell of manager to easily beat the team that beat the team Flight mentions above.

My point exactly Janie. In that game we had to play Skrtel at right-back for the first time in his life, El Zhar on the wing and Kuyt up front, with Ngog coming on as a sub. On top of that, Gerrard was just back from injury and two yards off the pace. We have a great first 11-14 players, but we don't have back up for them.

People knock Rafas spending, but Gago cost the same as Mascherano and Diarra cost more. We only have three players left from the squad Rafa inherited - that's including the nearly 36 year old Sami Hyppia - the rest were either very poor, too old or crocked and we got very low little money for any of them. In short Rafa has had to buy two players for every position on the pitch, plus replace the reserve and youth squads, at a total cost of �80mill, over 5 years. (Players bought, players sold).

Compare Rafas net spend with those of other Prem teams :

Chelsea �207m
Manchester United �206m (without a fee for Carlos Tevez)
Spurs �188m
Manchester City �140m

Liverpool �88m

I don't know what Wengers is, but I'd be interested to find out. Surely less, though he pays �20mill a year more in wages. Interesting that, the difference in our wage bill and Arsenals alone, is more than Rafa has had to spend on players.

Anyone who criticizes Rafas transfer record or spending record is spouting cheap journalistic bollocks and not anything based in truth.

Like I said, we have the best first 11 for over two decades. We haven't got a great deal in the way of back up when they get injured, though.

 

[Janie]

Anyone who criticizes Rafas transfer record or spending record is spouting cheap journalistic bollocks and not anything based in truth.

It's more the amount of players he buys who turn out to be either very average squad players (hence your squad isn't strong enough) or the ones he buys and simply aren't good enough - or for some reason don't fit into his style of play.
He's brought alot of bad players to the club and had to sell them on 1 or 2 seasons later. Alonso (who he wanted to sell) and Torres are the only players he's brought that would be classed as greats, you still rely on Gerrard way to much.

 

[Anubis]

We've just seen what happens when the team actually tries, Gerrard plays a blinder, they attack and the team selection is right. Nothing wrong with the first goal as the defender was hardly touched, the second was a linesman howler and I really don't like decisions like that for my team or anyone else. A team can only play against what is in front of them, but if the press's favourite team (who shall remain nameless but it's obvious who it is) had beaten Madrid 4-0 last night, then the reports would have been totally different and stressing how good they were and not that the opposition did not try.

The bottom line is that Liverpool played well to a man, they were up for it, the crowd were up for it (it has been like a morgue lately at Anfield) and they made Madrid look bad. It is far too easy to play Liverpool by parking the bus in front of their goal and getting breakaways and Madrid were surprised by the early tempo and never packed their defence.

It also proves that the manager's priority is Europe, and that him staying at the club is bad in the long term. In Europe, he is a genuis. Domestically he is inept. It does not change anything domestically. Will they turn up against United? Will Loafer Lucas and Drossena play? 1 up front? Who knows?

 

[Flight]

What a player Giggs is. If I had to pick a team from Prem players of the last decade he would be my first choice. Top bloke too.

 

[Rochdale]

de doe don't de doe?

 

[Agravaine]

I'd be interested to know where you get the wage figures from.

Are they officially listed by the clubs somewhere or is it coming from the groundsman's cousin's brother's uncle?

 

[Flight]

I'd be interested to know where you get the wage figures from.

Are they officially listed by the clubs somewhere or is it coming from the groundsman's cousin's brother's uncle?

Taken from Deloittes annual review of football finances. I've just checked the latest numbers and the difference is down from to �14mill now, with Arsenals wage bill reducing from �89.7mill to �83mill, in the last recorded financial year.


Chelsea - �114m
Manchester Utd - �85m
Arsenal - �83m
Liverpool - �69m
Newcastle Utd - �52m



It further underlines the point about Rafa. He's had �80million to replace the whole squad, the youth team and the reserves - on top of that we can't compete with the top teams wage structure. Yet the tabloids will say we've spent as much as Utd, ignoring all the above, and compare Rafas purchases to Fergusons, who can spunk �30mill on a player and spend �10mill just to borrow Tevez.


Janie, of course Rafa has purchased some players who aren't good enough for the top teams - its an unavoidable aspect of the limitations of the budget he has had. I'd propose he has nearly always made a profit moving them on and has used those players as stepping stones to gradual improvement of the first eleven and the squad. Of course his priority has been the CL rather than the Prem - its the only way he can get much needed finances to improve the team and we just don't have the depth of squad to cope with injuries over a season.


I don't want to keep banging on as my views are well known, but my main point is how poor sports journalism and commentary is in this country and how much journos and pundits ridiculous commentary color most peoples beliefs. Every manager and team is tied into a cheap shot stereotype to sell poor quality papers and TV coverage, when, if you look at the facts, the truth is often very different.


A closing example, Reina has won the Golden Gloves for Prems best keeper every year he has been here, yet you won't hear him rated special by the papers or the pundits. Yet they still rave over Cech as the best keeper in the world when he has been mediocre (by top teams standards) for the last 18 months.

 

[Janie]

A closing example, Reina has won the Golden Gloves for Prems best keeper every year he has been here.

Isn't the Golden Gloves for the keeper with the most clean sheets in a season? Not the same thing as best keeper really.

Nice try though

 

[Flight]

Isn't the Golden Gloves for the keeper with the most clean sheets in a season? Not the same thing as best keeper really.

Nice try though

According to you Carra and Skrtel aren't much good and the only decent players we have are Alonso and Stevie. Its got to be down to someone

 

[Janie]

My point was you have a big rant at how bad the sports journalism and commentory is then to prove this you posted a fact - only you slightly fudged the fact (golden gloves isn't awarded to the best keeper!)

Bit like Gary Glitter saying he's not a paedophile before breaking into a cover of 'I kissed a girl (and i liked it)'.

 

[Flight]

My point was you have a big rant at how bad the sports journalism and commentory is then to prove this you posted a fact - only you slightly fudged the fact (golden gloves isn't awarded to the best keeper!)

Bit like Gary Glitter saying he's not a paedophile before breaking into a cover of 'I kissed a girl (and i liked it)'.

Bit of a difference what is propagated as truth in the tabloids to what I said. An example is the 'renowned' website http://www.transferleague.co.uk/

I've seen that website quoted all over the tabloids - on the front page it lists all teams transfers "since Rafa took over" and compares it to the other teams. It so far off I spent some time looking at it.


The first thing I noticed was that they had Nando listed as costing �26.5mill when he was �20mill. In a footnote they quote their source - a link to an unsubstantiated rumor in a newspaper that was published four days before we sign him.

They go on to list Cisse as a Rafa buy at �14mill, but that was tied up before Rafa got here.


They make a series of other mistakes, including, but not limited to :


Diarra we got �2mill for (they don't even list him)
Nunez we got �2mill for (they list no fee)
Paletta we got �1.2mill (they list no fee)
Owen we got �8.5 mill (they list �8mill)
Kirkland we got �3.5mill (they list �3mill)
Kromkampf we got �1.75mil (they list �1.5mill)
Gonzalez we bought for �1.5mill (they reckon we paid �4.5mill)

There are numerous other mistakes and they all add up. In short, their inaccuracies make Rafas net spend to be 42% more than it actually is and this bollocks is enforced in all the tabloids.



The list is kind to Ferguson. I only took a quick glance but saw :

They list Nani and Anderson at �27mill when they were over �35mill

They list his 2 young recent recruits at �5mill a piece when they were �17mill

He lists an incoming transfer fee of �12mill for Mikel, with no outgoing fee


Rafas net spend is �16mill a year and he has had to replace the entire team and we have the best first eleven in 20 years. That doesn't even take into account how the finance available to him is further limited to massively less in wages than the other top four. He deserves credit but all he gets is abuse based on tabloid myth.

Banter and abuse between rival fans is fun and part of the game, but its a sad state of affairs when the tabloids can get away with spouting endless rubbish. I'm not just talking about what gets aimed at Rafa; the whole of sports journalism and TV punditry is so poor in this country its beyond belief. The other leading sports nations get excellent coverage and tactical analysis. We get Richard Keys, Andy Gray and Brian Woolnough.

 

[Anubis]

Well, the fool has opened his trap again. Will he ever learn?

 

[Janie]

Get ready for more Flight raving!

 

[Anubis]

Get ready for more Flight raving!

Nothing wrong with that. It shows whet they are capable of, hammering the top 2 teams in Europe within a week. Yet they can't be bothered against the likes of Stoke and Middlesborough, and until that attitude, dodgy tactics, team selection and Rafa's moaning are all sorted out, they will never win the league.

 

[Flight]

Get ready for more Flight raving!

I don't think. as Anubis said, its a case of disingenous tactics, team selection or whatever. I think its purely about having players available without injury.

The fact is, the Anfield crowd have always been moaning bastards, and their target for a number of years was Carra, who was poor for his first five years here. They all deserve time as long as they are giving 100%, like Lucas and Dossena.


Of course, I was worried about the Reina penalty, with the Janie curse, with the worst performance from him in 5 years.



In closing :


We beat Real 4-0

feedback : Real are a poor side


We beat the Mancs 1-4, at their gaff :

feedback ?????

 

[Anubis]

I don't think. as Anubis said, its a case of disingenous tactics, team selection or whatever. I think its purely about having players available without injury.
feedback ?????

Having injury free players helps and is one of the reasons, although Everton have done brilliantly with their injuries. Arse and Chelski have had key players out for a long long time. Nice to see Aurelio playing well, given a good run in the side.

We beat Real 4-0

feedback : Real are a poor side


We beat the Mancs 1-4, at their gaff :

feedback ?????

Exactly... amazing how many people have criticised Real for their display. Nobody has said that perhaps we made them look bad.

 

[Flight]

stuff

Well said, mate.



And well done Arshavin; from what I hear, he was brilliant today.

 

[Agravaine]

Arshavin was awesome but pales in comparison to Ebou� who is clearly the bestest player in the world ever.