40k Army

[Gottaa]

If something is 1,000pt Army does that mean 1,000pt or lower, or are you allowed a few extra points ?

I'd already planned my first 1,000pt Ork army, but with more reading and looking around I've come up with one I prefer the look of, but it's 1,002 points

This is for a game against Zed and I'm sure he'd let me off 2 ickle points, but in general what's the rule of thumb ?

 

[Requiel]

The rule is that the points limit is a limit. You can have less but not more. In friendly games your opponent might decide to let you off the extra couple of points but he doesn't have to, against people you don't know it's normally considered cheating. Part of the challenge is fitting everything in the points you're allowed and having to make choices between one item and another based on what you can afford rather than what you'd like to have.

 

[Zed]

By all means field 1002pts but as Req says generally dont field more than the limit

Hmm 1002pts worth of Necrons

 

[Gottaa]

Right, well I'll get in the habit now, it's 997pt with a little shuffling now, and probably better for it as a little more spread

Spoiler for My Army:

35 trukk
66 11 boyz
46 1 nob, pk, bp

35 trukk
66 11 boyz
85 1 warboss, pk

35 trukk
66 11 boyz
46 1 nob, pk, bp

35 trukk
66 11 boyz
46 1 nob, pk, bp

100 4 warbikers

135 9 lootas

135 3 killa kans with grotzookas

997 - Total

Happy for you to look as well Zed, but if you don't want to you don't have to. I definately won't have the models for this yet though and if all goes well with the mac running army builder in a virtual environment, the army will be checked and printed out with army builder

 

[Zed]

Hmm. Necrons are not going to like that one little bit.
Ill post a Necron army up later for you to look at.

 

[Gottaa]

Another question, I was looking at lobba batteries, but I can't seem to find 40k models for them, although they are in the codex, but they are at forgeworld.co.uk, but then I read that the more strict clubs won't allow forgeworld models, only 40k one's, which seems nutty, I mean just looking at my killakans I'd need to buy 3 full kits, just to get the 3 correct grotzooka's, is that really right ?

If so I think I'm gonna ditch the idea of going to that club because it'll just be too expensive.

And having never played against Necrons I wouldn't put money on it, I'm more trialling something new, having tried some large units + a single trukk before it didn't work well, so trying first an idea of everythign in transport, then maybe I'll try just LOADS of boyz I was also considering

Spoiler for this army:

115 battlewagon, deff rolla, grot rigga
114 19 boyz
46 1 nob, pk, bp

115 battlewagon, deff rolla, grot rigga
85 1 warboss, pk
114 19 boyz

115 battlewagon, deff rolla, grot rigga
114 19 boyz
46 1 nob, pk, bp

135 3 killa kans with grotzookas

999

But prefer going with the idea of more models = better

Edit: Just looked again and saw lobba gun this time, but it seems tiny compared to the others

 

[Requiel]

Forgeworld are official models if there's no actual citadel variant. A lot of clubs don't allow Forgeworld stuff that's not in the actual codex (such as the flyers and superheavies) but that's not the same thing as banning all Forgeworld stuff altogether. It's worth clarifying for sure.

Also your Kanz don't need to be identically armed, you can choose to have different loadouts on vehicles in the same squadron. If you do want three Grtozookas though and don't want to buy 3 boxes to get them, there are many bitz services that sell items from the sprue separately.

 

[Brutus]

As has been previously said though you can always sratch build them using other bits from the sprues if you like, as frankly its very orky!!

 

[Zed]

My counter. To be fair i suspect if i fielded a Monolith you'd never play me again

1000 Pts - Necrons Roster

1 Lord @ 200 pts (Staff of Light; Resurrection Orb; Veil of Darkness)
. . 1 Resurrection Orb
. . 1 Veil Of Darkness

10 Warriors @ 180 pts (Gauss Flayer)

10 Warriors @ 180 pts (Gauss Flayer)

10 Warriors @ 180 pts (Gauss Flayer)

1 Heavy Destroyers @ 65 pts (Heavy Gauss Cannon)

1 Heavy Destroyers @ 65 pts (Heavy Gauss Cannon)

1 Heavy Destroyers @ 65 pts (Heavy Gauss Cannon)

5 Scarab Swarms @ 60 pts

Validation Report:
c-1. File Version: 1.06b For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; b-1. Roster Options: Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Total Roster Cost: 995

Created with Army Builder� - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

 

[Gottaa]

I'd read that it's best to keep the weapon choices the same on small unit sizes, othweise I'd end up with some that couldn't shoot, some that can, etc, etc. And I like the idea of Heavy 2 with blast marker Well assuming targeting is done with each kan and I'm not going to be placing one marker and then rolling six dice ... hmm time to read the book again

My issue with scratch building is one local club runs with strict rules, and I'm concerned I'm gonna end up being told I can't use 'x', 'y' or 'z' as they aren't official, dunno, I'll be back at the place at the weekend to get some extra bits and paints anyway, and clarify just how strict they would be in regards scratch building or forgeworld stuff

Edit: I like the names of these necrons, this could be my other army choice

 

[Zed]

Or this

1000 Pts - Necrons Roster

1 Lord @ 155 pts (Staff of Light; Gaze of Flame; Resurrection Orb)
. . 1 Gaze of Flame
. . 1 Resurrection Orb

10 Warriors @ 180 pts (Gauss Flayer)

10 Warriors @ 180 pts (Gauss Flayer)

10 Warriors @ 180 pts (Gauss Flayer)

3 Destroyers @ 150 pts (Gauss Cannon)

3 Destroyers @ 150 pts (Gauss Cannon)

Validation Report:
c-1. File Version: 1.06b For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; b-1. Roster Options: Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Total Roster Cost: 995

Created with Army Builder� - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

 

[Gottaa]

Whatever you fancy Zed, I only really know a little about Orks, less about Tau, even less about Marines, and everything else is a mystery

 

[Zeus]

gottaa - any club that refuses to let you use scratchbuilt *ork* vehicles because they're not 'proper games workshop' clearly is missing the point. hell, theres a bunch of things you cant get in proper games workshop at the moment - some tyranid stuff doesnt exist, the BA Stormraven (assuming its real) doesnt exist, for a long while some of the ork stuff didnt exist...
GWs problem, for tournaments at least, is that they dont want copyright issues if they put some other company's models in white dwarf in tournament pictures. so they dont allow any custom stuff in tourneys. and this attitude tends to filter down to some clubs, i guess.
when they say 'no forgeworld stuff!' it normally refers to forgeworld *rulesets* rather than physical models. For example, there are forgeworld rules like for Hazard Suits - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/pdf/xv9.pdf - essentially a step up from Crisis suits (and, imo, lovely models http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/xv9store.jpg ). So using them would be a nono, because theres no equivalent to them in 'official' GW rules. otoh, the standard GW broadside models are a bag of arse, and the forgeworld ones are lovely http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/bsidep2store.jpg , for example, so i'd expect them to allow the use of those, unless they're being over-restrictive just for the fun of it.

Forgeworld is a part of GW, their models are official, but their rulesets are designed for more self-regulated games (like apocalypse) and therefore might not be permitted in 'standard' games.
the reason for this isnt really that small models (like the hazards mentioned above) would be out of context, its that if you allow those, then you open the door for people spending 900 points of a 1500 pt army on a Thunderhawk gunship, that is essentially unkillable in a game of that size

uh, that was a bit of a rant and i probably repeated myself, oh well gist of it is:
custom models should be fine for club play, custom rules are not.

 

[Zeus]

zed -
i suspect necrons are one of those armys that doesnt work at small points values tbh. and its not helped by the fact that they're a hugely inflexible army anyway. added to that, they're a shooting army from an edition (3rd) that was more focused on the shooting side of things, and therefore they have points to match. they're no longer as effective as they used to be, because cover comes into play easier and with more effect, and your opponents can close with you faster due to Run.
and the orks are pretty much the posterchild for the modern CC oriented armies.

but still...
looks like your going along the right path i'd personally tend to take 40 warriors, but its such a huge amount of points in a 1000pt game (720 points just for them).
i'd also be against spending 40 points on a resurection orb in a game of that size against orks. they get so little that you'd use it against (mostly just powerclaws, and honestly if they get into close combat then losing 1-2 less to a powerklaw each turn isnt gonna help you much ) that its not really worth it imo. i'd be more tempted by a phylactery, so that if they do manage to kill your lord (someone with a powerklaw making it into base to base with him, generally), he can stand back up.

 

[Zed]

yeah thats what i was thinking (re the Res orb) and the same with voD, it doesnt seem to make sense (unless we do objectives) since the Orks are going to be coming at me to kill me.

ill have a think over the weekend. I dont have any Pariahs or Immortals. I could proxy those for the game with gottaa and I only have 2 wraiths and a Tomb spyder. the wraiths seem kind of Meh! with no power weapon they wouldnt really do much i don't think.

Im trying to avoid fielding the monolith because i dont think Gottaa would have much that could dent it and it just seems too much for a 1000pt learning game (harsh lesson i think if you field it - harsh for the opponent)

 

[Gottaa]

I'll be doing a chunk of proxying, until I get a feel for the kind of ork force I like and get on with loath to spend too much on models, if I like this for example I've got to buy 3 more trukk's, 2 boxes of lootas and a box of killa kans. I was thinking of fielding 3 units of lots of boyz, but even then I'd need to get more boyz.

And re. what we play I thought we'd do this dice rolling thing at the start to see what kind of game it is as per the rulebook, I assumed that was the normal way to do things, or do we choose a game type before hand ?

Either way though I try to play my Orks like orks, so they pretty much will be coming at you with all the dakka and choppa's they can

As for a monolith, I tend to hope the kans and the selection of power klaws are enough to deal with things, is that not the case ?

 

[Zed]

the Monolith has something called living metal which effectively reduces EVERYTHING to rolling 1D6+str to penetrate vs AV14. I believe it ignores the effects of power weapons as well (dont have the book to hand right this second) so it makes killing it very very hard. Today its deemed as one of the toughest non Apoc vehicles to take out, some people refuse to play against the damn thing and its less than Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer/Standard Pattern in terms of points (15 - 25pts less)

So you really need a Str 9/Str 10 weapon to Pen it. Then its immune to destroyed weapon results on the power matrix so it can still drop pie plate attacks on you every round even if it looses its normal guns.

 

[Gottaa]

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA.../m1180146_Necrons_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

Q. Does a model with a powerfist/claw that attacks a Monolith get to double its Strength for armour penetration rolls?
A. Yes, powerfists/claws, thunder hammers, and so on still double their user�s Strength when attacking a Monolith.

From there FAQ bit that I've now got bookmarked and it's helped me with a few questions

I should add I'm happy not to run into one, but a unit of nob boyz with pk's should upset it Maybe they would do that, then loot it to use for themselves next time

And regarding the strict club, it's run in a local shop that sells all the bits, it could be there is more flexibility, but it certainly sounded like it was very strict on what could/couldn't be fielded, assuming I do well on the races though I'll be there at the weekend and check

 

[Zed]

Ahhh interesting. Okay i hadnt seen that. Makes it a little more interesting to attempt to kill then.

So what does that turn into ? Str 8 for a nob with a PK? So you still need a 6 to glance. Ouch. So you might immobilise the monolith but probably wont destroy it. do you have anything with a PK and Str 5?

 

[Zeus]

warbosses have 5 iirc.